Ahmadiyyanews presents the interview of Hafiz Akber
Choudhry Sahib, who was a born Ahmady but have left
the Jama’at Ahmadiyya since last year.
He is a learned person and had become a critic to the Jama’at
Ahmadiyya lately. His criticism lead the life time Amir and
Missionary in charge Canada Mr. Nasim Mehidi to establish
a commission against him.
Today
he has become a staunch enemy of the Ahmadiyya Jama’at. The purpose of
this interview was, to observe his thoughts and concerns, which lead
him to denounce Jama’at Ahmadiyya.
Ahmadiyyanews
consider his denunciation along with many others, who have left the
Jama’at else where as a slap to the face of the elders in authority.
The concerned Ahmadies must read out this interview and learn the ways,
how they can improve the situation if they have any say in the Jama’at
matters. (AhmadiyyaNews)
Interview with Akber Choudhry August 16, 2006Ahmadiyyanews Q-1:
Can you please provide us a little of your back ground and the level of your involvement in the Ahmadiyya community in the past?
Akber Choudhry:
I
do not like to talk much about my background as most of my family is
still in the Ahmadiyya. My great-grandparents were Muslim and on both
sides, my grandparents were born into it.
I
was active as time permitted, until about 7 years ago, when I decided
to leave. Based on my skills, I was active in writing, printing,
publication, video, translation etc.
Ahmadiyyanews Q-2:
Precisely what made you to denounce the Jama’at Ahmadiyya now?
Akber Choudhry:
Ahmadiyya
is not a religious organization. It is a personality cult that confuses
and controls its followers, mostly coming from a certain region of
Pakistan and India. The people of those regions (mostly Punjab and
Sindh) are historically used to blindly believing in 'peers' regardless
of what they say and do.
As
I have always felt that I am personally responsible for my faith, I
tried to trace the origins of these corruptions and practices (that
most Ahmadis know about). What I found out was that the root of all
these were the words and behaviour of Mirza Ghulam Ahmad himself.
When
we say this, most Ahmadis will tune out and say that this are the same
'objections' that have been around for a long time. However, they will
not talk, debate, or discuss these before an impartial person, ever.
They do not talk and they lie. I know 'lie' is a strong word but it is
exactly what they do.
Such a corrupt organization can only be a cult, and once a person knows that, there is no way to stay in the organization.
Ahmadiyyanews Q-3:
Do you not believe Hazrat Mirza Ghulam Ahmad as the Promised Messiah and Mehdi? If not then what made you believe that?
Akber Choudhry:
Of
course not. When you read about Islamic theology, you will find out
that this concepts are totally alien to Islam, and part of apocryphal
literature. To base one's faith on such stories is not Islam. Allah
uses very strong words in Aal-Imran (3:7) to not make confusing issues
as the foundation for faith.
Ahmadiyyanews Q-4:
If you don’t believe him today then what made you believe on him during your past stay in Ahmadiyyat?
Akber Choudhry:
I
was born into it, but ever since my late teens (when I first read MGA
books) I had this feeling inside me that this man was either totally
misled or there is something more that I don't know about. Finally,
after years of reading and research, I finally had the courage to leave
this cult and expose the man (MGA) himself for what he was.
Ahmadiyyanews Q-5:
While
pointing out the corrupt behaviour and practices of the Jama’at
Ahmadiyya you said, the root of all these were the words and behaviour
of Mirza Ghulam Ahmad himself.
In
the light of the criteria you have established against Mirza Sahib and
by looking at the poor state of the followers of the various religions
of the world, the question for you is. Don’t you think the same
criteria can be applied against all the Prophets. Then by looking at
the state of the Muslim world, would you consider the Holy Prophet slaw
as being the root cause of this corrupt behaviour of Muslims if not
then please explain why?
Akber Choudhry:
This
is a rather long question and is loaded. First of all, my criteria are
those that are used a normal honest person or organization, and
criteria used to judge an intellectual person. Mirza Sahib fails on
both, and miserably.
Your
assertion that 'Muslims have corrupt behaviour' and 'state of the
Muslim world' is off the mark. Be specific if you want to be.
Muslims
live in vibrant societies, respect each other, discuss about Islam and
theology and write and opine, and read and publish books, while
Ahmadiyya is a closed cult and based on oppression.
To
compare the vast and beautiful world of Islam against a closed
community of peer-following Pakistanis is absurd, and shows the
teachings of the cult in your words. The biggest tool that the
Ahmadiyya leadership uses to stop its members from communicating with
the general Muslim body is this 'hatred of Muslims', which
unfortunately, you are also presenting here.
Ahmadiyyanews Q-6:
You
have talked about the presence of corrupt behaviour and practices
within the Jama’at Ahmadiyya. Can you please elaborate on it and
explain how you would distinguish them from the behaviour and practices
adopted by the rest of the Muslim sects?
Akber Choudhry:
I
do not believe there are sects in mainstream Islam. Sects are like the
Druze, the Isamilis, the Submitters and the Ahmadiyya – at the fringes
of Islam. The main body of Islam is not divided by sects like
Christianity is. All those who go for Hajj and pray behind one Imam are
part of one Ummah.
The
behaviour I am talking about is : fraud, misquoting, perversion of
ideas and thoughts, discouraging questioning and research, calling
other Muslims kafir, exaggerating their achievements. Ahmadiyya is
intellectually dead – for many decades they have failed to publish ONE
book on any serious topic that can be acclaimed as a literary
achievement. Why? The Khalifa is 'appointed by God' and the only one
allowed to think or speak. Do you seriously believe such a system can
ever achieve anything?
Ahmadiyyanews Q-7:
Recently
a commission was formed against you to re-consider your membership in
the Jama’at Ahmadiyya by the Amir & Missionary In charge Canada.
What was the reason behind it and where did it end up?
Akber Choudhry:
I have requested all members of that commission to allow me to come and present my point of view, but they have not responded.
That
is the biggest sign of a cult: the commission was not to ask me about
my writings and articles, but was to intimidate me. Once they saw I was
not intimidated, they backed off and went silent. In the words of Malik
Lal Khan, 'first we will see whether there will be a benefit of the
hearing or not'. Again, this is against all human law and rules that
mankind has lived by for thousands of years.
And
you will find many examples of such vicious behaviour in the life of
Mirza Ghulam Sahib, when he would not talk, but curse his opponents and
those that left.
Ahmadiyyanews Q-8:
Akbar
Sahib if you don't mind can you respond the questions in more
intellectual way so Ahmadies can read it with interest. Also this
interview will reflect your personality and the level of taqwa along
with the truth of your case.
Akber Choudhry:
Brother,
if you do not compare Mirza Ghulam Sahib with Muhammad(saw), I would
not reply in a like manner. This style of Ahmadis is not acceptable in
an intellectual conversation. If you were to say to me, 'you are
hateful in your responses' and I was to say 'I think Mr. Smith is also
hateful' – is that logical? When we talk about Mirza Ghulam Sahib,
restrict the conversation to him: whether he was a decent person, holy
person, or intellectual person. Simple as that.
Regarding my personality, it is what it is – I have no patience for lies, fraud, and 'gol' discussions.
Regarding
level of taqwa, this is another thing about the cult: everyone trying
to prove how he is more pious than the other one. I have no such
problems: I am a sinner and answerable to my God. Allah says: 'falaa
tuzakkoo anfusakum, huwa a'lamu bimanit-taqaa' – do not try to be
pious, God knows about your taqwa.
The
truth of my case is through the force of logic and argument, not
through personality. This is EXACTLY what is the problem with Ahmadis:
they worship personalities and thus can never judge the truth or
falsehood of what that person said.
So,
ask simple questions, you will get simple answers insha-Allah. I have
great respect for you and want to co-operate with you, and I wish and
pray that one day you can see logic, and not be intimidated by the
personalities of Mirza Ghulam Sahib and his sons.
Ahmadiyyanews Q-9:
Can
you please tell us the motivation behind the formation of the
commission against you. Do you consider the formation of such a high
powered commission as an act of standard procedure being used or was
there any personal grudge involved against you?
Akber Choudhry:
There
was no personal grudge. I did not get along well with either Aslam Daud
or Malik Lal Khan, and I was never impressed with Khalifa Aziz. I have
respect for Nasim Mahdi – he has leadership skills and is intelligent
and knows how to live within the system. However, he appointed these
three people on the commission to discuss my articles and what I wrote.
Unfortunately, I did not have an opportunity to talk to them. I can
talk with them at any time and at any place.
Ahmadiyyanews Q-10:
While
you was still inside the Jama’at, have you justified the authority of
Mr. Nasim Mehdi as President? Also have you ever challenged the
authority of the commission he formed?
Akber Choudhry:
No,
he has full right to form such a commission. In this regard, I have
disagreed with your position. The Centre has the full right to appoint
or have anyone elected under the Ahmadiyya by-laws. The national
president of the Jama'at in each country is normally elected, but an
exception has been made for Canada and the exception is within the
rules. That exception has to do with the political contacts of Mr.
Mahdi in Canada and in the UN. At any point in time, the Mirza Family
may need his services if they get into trouble in Pakistan or
elsewhere. This is the role of Nasim Mahdi.
Ahmadiyyanews Q-11:
You
have spoken about the corrupt behaviour of the authorities and un-just
procedures being used within the Jama’at. Can you kindly explain it in
little detail for our viewers and provide them with some examples so
they can understand what you are talking about?
Akber Choudhry:
All
human societies, nations and religions agree on a common set of ethics:
speaking the truth, financial accountability, not lying, not
defrauding, answering questions, replying to queries, consistency,
conflict of interest, etc. The Ahmadiyya lacks these basic ethical
characteristics, and it has lacked them from the time of Mirza Ghulam
Sahib. Ahmadiyya culture focuses on two corrupted concepts: 'ataa'at
and hikmat' : obedience and wisdom. However, like all cults that also
focus on these two things, they are not what is generally understood by
the rest of the world. It means 'obedience and twisting of the truth'
regardless of the facts. Cults develop this false 'persecution complex'
and reward structure so that its followers are constantly under fear
that they are persecuted and that they are the chosen ones, regardless
of what the facts or the truth is. In this way, the leadership can
control the followers.
No
leader in the world has been above financial accountability, but
mention this to the Ahmadiyya, and they will look at you as if you are
crazy.
They
make promises and lie about them : like going back to Qadian and the
'barkat' of the marriage of Mirza Nasir. They cheat people of money:
don't make claims of property in India, then make the claim themselves.
Their books are full of false references. They do no intellectual work
at all, and then tell Ahmadis that they do the most intellectual work.
If an Ahmadi wants to look at what the Muslim world is doing, they stop
it.
They
were not interested in you running for Ontario parliament – not because
of some enmity against you. It is because any high-profile
truth-speaking Ahmadi will result in more exposure for them. Their only
goal is to make money for the Mirza Family and buy property for mosques
that ultimately belongs to the Mirza Family.
People
like you and I used to believe that there was some personal conflict
with us. NO. We were useless in the goal of the jama'at that has been
since Mirza Ghulam left his job in Sialkot – make money without
accountability.
Ahmadiyyanews Q-12:
A
Missionary have been imposed in Canada as President of the Ahmadiyya
community from the last quarter of a Century. Why do you think such a
dictatorial set up has been established in a Country, which is famous
for its highest level of democratic values?
Akber Choudhry:
Here
I disagree with you. 'Democratic values' are usually fake: the Liberal
party can appoint anyone as a candidate, and can appoint any elected MP
as a minister. The party leaders are chosen based on connections and
how many memberships they can sell. The Catholic Church works on
appointments.
Please
do not be deluded by the Western concept of democracy: it is a sham to
keep the simple people happy while the power structures and media
controls or influences the political process behind the scenes.
Khalifa
is elected for whole life – and so is the pope – and so are the
cardinals. This is why, despite having great respect for you, I do not
agree with this stand. It is too subjective – based on a fuzzy concept,
not hard logic.
Ahmadiyyanews Q-13:
In
response to a question you said, “Democratic values' are usually fake”.
Is that mean you are not a believer of the democratic values ?
Akber Choudhry:
Please,
no misquoting. The phrase 'democratic values' is usually fake – not
always – that is the meaning of the word 'usually'. The Iraq war was
based on democratic values, and a lot of other crimes against humanity
have been perpetrated by it. Democratic values arise from people, and
are not imposed upon them, and they are almost always related to
societies and government, not private associations. One of the more
important democratic value is 'freedom of association' which means you
are free to associate with whatever group you want to, and the group is
free to enact whatever laws or rules it wants. If Ahmadis feel content
and comfortable with blind obedience to a Khalifa and they think that
their salvation is dependent on believing Mirza Ghulam Sahib to be the
Messiah, you can associate with them, or distance yourself from them.
Only when the need for democracy arises from within the group is it
viable – and there is no need yet – because Ahmadis are more eager to
'buy' their salvation from the Khalifa, rather than make him democratic.
Ahmadiyyanews Q-14:
While
talking about the Jama’ati system, you said “The Centre has the full
right to appoint or have anyone elected under the Ahmadiyya by-laws.
The national president of the Jama'at in each country is normally
elected, but an exception has been made for Canada and the exception is
within the rules.”
So
in your opinion, the selection or election both are equally justified
in Islam and the Islamic teachings allow a Khalifa to make appointments
for all public offices at his discretion? Is that what you are saying?
Akber Choudhry:
Government
is elected, and then appointments are made, according to laws. Once
Harper was elected, he can appoint ambassadors, ministers, heads of
agencies, senators, Governor General, and leaders of armed forces. Once
the Khalifa is elected (the election is not fair by the way, it is
basically an election from within the Mirza Family), he can appoint
whoever he wants according to the Tehrik-e-Jadid by-laws, under which
foreign missions operate.
Similarly,
candidates for the Liberal Party of Canada can be elected locally, or
be appointed by the party leader, and it is within the Liberal Party
by-laws.
There
is nothing wrong with all of this. Brother, I support your cause, but
not your technique. The problem is the entire belief system and
cult-like structure of the Ahmadiyya, which goes back to 1914 and is
based on lies and fraud and misinformation. You cannot support the
person who made these rules and grabbed power (Mirza Mahmud Ahmad), and
then accuse his successors of using them to their advantage. Once Mirza
Mahmud declared that God makes Khalifa, nothing else can be done,
because Ahmadi people are too happy to follow a God-appointed khalifa
because they think it guarantees their salvation without too much
personal thinking and effort.
Ahmadiyyanews Q-15:
You
have identified a set of ethics being exercised in all societies but
you have not mentioned the most important part of the set of ethics,
which is known as justice. Is that mean the Justice has no place in
your priority list?
Akber Choudhry:
Again,
you are putting words into my mouth. My whole life is a struggle for
justice. The Jama'at system is not just at all – and many common
Ahmadis are intimidated and abused. No one can ever be sure to get
justice from any Jama'at official, qadi, or Khalifa and everything is
based on politics and contacts. The opposite of justice is corruption,
and the Jama'at is very guilty of that. However the appointment of
Nasim Mahdi is not unjust – it is within the laws. The victims of
injustice are common Ahmadis, and they take the injustice as a 'test of
their faith'. Unless you can get those people on your side, there is no
hope for ever implementing justice within the Ahmadiyya.
Ahmadiyyanews Q-16:
You
have justified Mr. Nasim Mehdi as President. You have also justified
his authority for the establishment of an inquiry commission against
yourself. Then why did not you cooperate and submit a written defence
to the commission and insisted for a verbal meeting with the commission
members or responding to the allegations in a book you was writing? How
would you explain your conduct?
Akber Choudhry:
I
did submit a written response, which was faxed and mailed. I then asked
for a meeting to discuss the response and to review the allegations
against me. This is the usual case of tribunals – they receive written
responses from both sides and the cross-examine. Such tribunals are the
example of Jama'at injustice, that they dress up and pretend it is
justice. It is just intimidators behaviour.
I
have never been able to get a single Ahmadi to debate with me, although
I used to be consulted for almost all literary work regarding the
Ahmadiyya. This lack of confidence and perpetuation of lies is a MUCH
bigger problem than any appointments. It shows the whole structure to
be fake.
Brother Dar, you are asking for a beautiful roof in a building that is corrupt from the core. That is how I see it.
Ahmadiyyanews Q-17:
In
your response to a question, you have supported those same procedures
to be used for filling the public offices, which are being used in
order to fill the public services positions ? Don’t you think public
offices should be filled through a democratic procedure?
Akber Choudhry:
Yes,
they should be. Jama'at offices are not public service – but rather a
private enterprise that has its own by-laws. Despite that, even in
public service, not all positions can be elected, due to convenience,
time constraints and other such factors. So, we usually elect one
person and allow him or her to appoint others.
The
problem with Jama'at is that even the Khalifa is not properly elected,
and campaigning for the Khalifa happens behind the scenes, and there is
campaigning hypocrisy in all Jama'at elections. Also, changing the
rules by which international jama'ats are governed should be done by
Shura. The Ahmadiyya Shura is a joke – with no real issues being
discussed or entertained. So, wish you best of luck in the
democratization of the Jama'at. I would suggest that you not spend your
energy on it, as it is not a transparent organization – it is just a
facade for the Mirza Family business interests. If it were a genuine
organization that did actual work and followed its own laws, there
would be some effect of your struggles.
Ahmadiyyanews Q-18:
You
denounced Jama’at Ahmadiyya, while an inquiry commission had been
formed against you. Was that decision of your in anyway linked with the
establishment of that commission? If not then why did you choose that
particular time for this disassociation?
Akber Choudhry:
Not
at all. I did not even expect them to establish such a commission. I
had told the Vaughan president 3 years prior to this event that I would
either leave the Jama'at or establish some kind of reform movement. I
told him that I would take three years to study and for him to
communicate my wish to the Amir that I be de-activated from Jama'at
records. My mind was firmly made up close to the end of three years,
co-incident with the death of Mirza Tahir Ahmad.
Ahmadiyyanews Q-19:
After exiting from Jama’at Ahmadiyya, which school of thought you have chosen to associate with? Or you are on your on?
Akber Choudhry:
I
am a Muslim, and there are an increasing number of Muslims who call
themselves just 'Muslims'. I believe that mainstream Islam has no
sects, and all those who go for Hajj are part of one Muslim body. I
have friends from many schools of thoughts, including Jafari, Hanafi,
Maliki and also with Sufi leanings. The essentials of faith are
identical – the minor things are an area of interest to me, and not
part of my faith. The vendors of religion will never explain to you
this verse, which is my guiding principle of faith(3:7):
“He
it is Who has revealed the Book to you; some of its verses are
decisive, they are the basis of the Book, and others are allegorical;
then as for those in whose hearts there is perversity they follow the
part of it which is allegorical, seeking to mislead and seeking to give
it (their own) interpretation. but none knows its interpretation except
Allah, and those who are firmly rooted in knowledge say: We believe in
it, it is all from our Lord; and none do mind except those having
understanding.”
I
pray in various mosques and I never know what school of thought the
Imam follows. I find it very interesting and inspiring to see the
slight variations in practice, and I find the essentials identical.
Ahmadiyyanews Q-20:
Do you believe any reformer with the title of the Messiah or Mehdi will appear in Islam in the future?
Akber Choudhry:
No.
No one gets titles in advance – just does not make sense. The concept
of Mahdi has been discredited by most scholars, and even Mirza Ghulam
Ahmad has renounced it, and then strangely claimed it for himself, and
then left open the possibility of more Mahdis. Please read Sir Syed's
article on this.
Messiah
is not an arbitrary title – it was the title given to Eesa (Jesus) son
of Mary. Regarding the concept of Messiah's return, it is only one or
two Ahadith that are narrated in various forms, and combined with a
certain interpretation from the Quran. As I quoted the verse above, we
should not even take Quran's allegorical statements as basis for faith,
let alone Ahadith. Also, Quran itself says that speculation about Eesa
(as) is conjecture. It is a good topic for research, but Islam or faith
does not depend on it.
Ahmadiyyanews Q21:
Do you consider yourself on the wrong path in your previous life or do you consider yourself on the wrong path now?
Akber Choudhry:
I
always considered myself on Islam. While in the Ahmadiyya, I was under
the impression that I was within Islam as I was born into it and had
always believed in it. However, that was a wrong impression. I always
felt uneasy about how Ahmadis mistrusted the general Muslim population,
almost bordering on hate – and what false impressions they had about
the Muslims. This is perpetrated by the Ahmadiyya leadership not
allowing Ahmadis to socialize with Muslims.
Once
in mainstream Islam, I was pleased to find out that the Muslim
community is vibrant, progressive, and actively engaged in all kinds of
intellectual, social and political pursuits. Now, the world of
Ahmadiyya seems like a tiny cult to me, obsessed with making payments
to, and worshipping, their Khalifa, and not participating in any real
intellectual, social or political life.
The
'path' is very wide, and is wide enough for all Muslims. My core
beliefs have not changed: regarding Allah, Muhammad, Quran, Qiyamah
etc. My peripheral and unimportant beliefs like Mahdi etc. have changed
as I had previously been misguided due to a lack of information. But
most of all, I have left a closed cult that is intellectually dead and
dying and has failed to produce a single scholar of any acclaim – a
cult based on lies, hiding and intimidation. Alhamdu Lillah.
